Interview with Courtney Little of ACE Glass and Walter Bezan, Jr., Bezan Painting, on ethics.

Now’s the time to start thinking and applying for the coveted awards presented annually at the ASA Convention. The deadline for applications for the ethics award is December 6. Best practices award applications are due November 1. Application forms and details for all awards can be found here.

ASA chatted with two past recipients of its annual ethics award. Here’s what they said:

For companies implementing an ethics program, what do you think is the toughest area to get right? 

Courtney Little, President and General Counsel, ACE Glass: Most contractors try to be ethical. But sometimes it’s tough to get it right. It takes constant input from employees as to what issues they’re facing day to day. What crosses the line? A lunch here? A trip there? Open memberships? Bid shopping and peddling is definitely an issue. You need to discuss all the gray areas – as to what could be considered an ethical issue. It’s important to have discussions and make sure the boundaries are well known throughout the companies. You also need to check in periodically as to what looks suspicious? Is one vendor hanging around a lot? You just have to know why.

Walter Bezan Jr.,  Bezan Painting: The toughest thing is just sitting down and writing out the program. Most people operate in an ethical manner. There’s really nothing hard about it, to be perfectly honest. The whole thing about ethics is how do you act when people aren’t watching. It’s easy to do the right thing when someone’s watching. But what happens when there’s no one around to check? When applying for the ASA award, you have to ask competitors to send in their opinions about you as well. You have no clue what they’re going to say. 

Where do you see most companies having to re-do or amend their ethics programs? 

Little:  We really had no formal ethics program outside of the “DO RIGHT RULE,” until we applied for the award. At that point there was a lot of little stuff to clarify as to what’s acceptable and what’s right. You just have to realize that If a company will do it FOR you, they’ll also be willing to do it TO you. Why is a person giving you an inside tip? Is it a thank you, are they trying to grow the relationship, or do they want something more? You have to make sure you’re doing the right thing – whether someone’s watching or not. You draw a line in the sand and in your heart that you’re not going there for any ulterior motive. We all want to get contracts, but when I do a favor for someone, I go out of my way NOT to ask for anything. If they have to say “no” to you next time, will they feel weird? Will you feel weird? That can’t be the case. 

Bezan: If you’ve been talking about various issues on an ongoing basis, there shouldn’t need to be a whole lot of change. We talk about ethics issues weekly. My general superintendent, estimators, project managers, they handle any customer issues. It’s part of our regular discussion on Thursday morning. We have a pretty free-flowing discussion and information exchange in our office. If you don’t feel good about it, it’s probably something you shouldn’t do. 

Do you think the current pandemic has changed -or will change – companies’ ethics programs? In what way? 

Little: Yes. In particular, in enforcing and upholding those ethics. If you’re hungry, there are definitely more temptations. If competitor has dropped their ethics, how do you compete on an unfair playing field? We’ve had some potential customers contacting us – those that may not pay as fast, and while before we were busy enough to say, no, now, we’re willing to look at these tier two customers. Do we bid that work? It’s the same thing with ethics. It’s so easy to drop some of those lines and cut corners. It will cause stress to change some ethical beliefs to get some of the work done. 

Owners and contract architects are pushing the envelope – you have to hold or absorb the cost of added safety measures. 

For example, we can’t have shared water dispensers any more, so we were creating all of this plastic bottle waste. It was not sustainable. It was also expensive. The workers came up with the solution that we embraced. We gave gallon containers for people to fill at home with water and ice. It’s much more sustainable. The workers owned the solution. The team became engaged. COVID PPE is not that bad for us. Yes, there’s more time spent – separate drivers, etc. But those are the rules. Workers need to abide by them to stay safe. 

Bezan: The basics haven’t changed, but since more people are working virtually, and you don’t have that discussion time in the break room or just chatting, “how would you handle this situation?”…there’s just not as much informal conversation to hash things out. From March through mid-May we worked virtually, but since then, we’ve been back in the office full strength. 

What I wish, is that the states and officials would be more ethical in reporting COVID case numbers. The agencies that are reporting the numbers are just so far behind. The cases drop, then spike, and I’ve learned it’s just due to when they get the test results back, rather than when the test was taken. But each state, county, region is different in how they count the numbers. There’s no system.

What do you see as the biggest benefit to having an ethics program at your business?

Little: The biggest benefit is having something formal you can share with others. These subjects come up in conversation with others. Having a written policy gives it more teeth. We’ve all discussed it – and we can adjust as necessary. If you don’t write it down and track it, it doesn’t get done most of the time.

Another good thing is having a third-party check and verify it – for example with the ASA award. We sometimes overestimate our actions, so it’s good to have a third party verify and compare our program with other companies. It gives it more validity, and shows we care that we’re doing it right. 

Bezan: Having an ethics program gets us all on the same page, thinking the same way. I’m one of seven guys in my office that can go out and get work. Having an ethics program and having everyone thinking the same way, guarantees that we’re all doing it the right way. Sure, everyone has their own touch and manner, but the guidelines are there. 

How do you make sure that all employees are aware of your company’s ethics standards, and after the onboarding process, how do you keep it top-of-mind?

Little: That’s a challenge for everything. Repetition, repetition, repetition. Sales and purchasing see where things come from, who’s doing it. You need good accountability. It’s also important to give other companies a chance. If you’ve been working with one vendor for a while, and a colleague says he knows and trusts a competitor…give them a chance. 

During safety meetings – this is when you bring up ethics as well. You’ve got to make sure you do that right thing when no one’s watching just as much as when someone IS watching. It’s good for the community and builds trust. You’ve got to be looking out for them and reminding them. 

Even if you’re dealing with people outside of your company on a job site, you’ve got to do the right thing. If you see something, say something. You tell them directly, but if they don’t change, you’ve got to report it. The safety of one reflects on the safety of everyone. If a job gets shut down due to a preventable injury, then everyone suffers.

Bezan: During our weekly meetings, ethics is treated the same as safety, quality, production, etc. It’s just one of the ingredients in the mix. It’s kept top of mind that way – just as all the other areas that are vital for a business to succeed. 

What have you had to change – or add to/remove from – your ethics program as it has evolved? 

Little: We were fairly comprehensive. The basics haven’t changed, but we’ve had to discuss situational changes due to a new vendor or customer that may do things differently. We’ll discuss how to do things right. And of course, new situations will come up where you might need to adjust your initial thoughts. 

When figuring out what’s the right thing to do, even the possible perception of impropriety – can’t be overlooked. 

Bezan: Our ethics document is fairly short and simple. And it’s pretty much stayed the same. We discuss situations at our weekly meetings to hash out any gray areas, but it’s all about doing the right thing.

What business benefits has your ethics program provided your company?

Little: Severalfold – we tell our customers about how we do things. Vendors, customers, employees have a better level of trust with us. Employees stick to us more, and are proud to be part of an organization that is trying to do the right thing. If an employee leaves a company, it’s usually because of the company culture. Employees are also more productive if they trust and believe in you.

I also give my employees a high level of accountability. A crew that trusts each other are more open and can discuss something that may have been perceived differently than it was intended. We’ve been in business 34 years, and we’ve had a very low turnover because we’ve treated people right, and asked them to tell us when we’re not. 

Bezan: The way we operate has definitely gotten us business. We have a good reputation, and customers understand that we operate in an ethical manner. Standing alone, it won’t get you the job, but it IS important. We do an e-newsletter, and I’ve talked about our program in one of them. Some government contractors want to know if you have an ethics program and have won any awards. I always mention the ASA award. 

What I don’t understand is why more people don’t apply for the award. There are plenty of companies that qualify. While we had a program before we applied, we had to formalize it a bit in order to apply. The whole application process looks daunting, but a little bit over a couple of months, and it’s not that hard. It is definitely doable. 
Ready to apply? Find the application online at asaonline.com/awards/